I have recently received a number of scraps on my orcut profile from a Christian who seems to want to convert me. To do so he has posted inaccurate information. Now from his reaction I think that he was not aware that the information he was using was anything but genuine. I think there is a good chance that he had been conned himself. The person concerned keeps his scrapbook private, so I cannot see who else he is communicating with. I suspect he has been passing the same information to other non-Christians. I have written down the information that he passed in the hope that any other non-Christians who are told the same will be able to quickly see that it is not genuine.
Evidence based on the Bhavishya Purana
The following verse appears to predict Jesus Christ. There are also many other verses predicting Jesus.
isha muurtirt-dradi praptaa
nityashuddha sivamkari
ishamasihah iti ca
mama nama pratishthitam
“Having placed the eternally pure and auspicious form of the Supreme Lord in my heart, O protector of the earth planet, I preached these principles through the mlecchas’ own faith and thus my name became ‘isha-masiha’ (Jesus the Messiah).”
This may at first appear to be remarkable. The Wikipedia article shows that the same purana also remarkably predicts Queen Victoria. Other sources show that it even used words in English (‘Sunday’, ‘February’ and ‘Sixty’), a language that would not exist in any recognisable form for over a thousand years from the supposed date of this document. It also predicted the East India Company and Mugal Rule. This would appear to be a remarkably predictive document indeed!
Unfortunatley there are a number of things that make it look much more likely to be tempered with. Firstly, no editions of this purana dating from before British rule can be found. Secondly the predictions stop at 1900, so there are no predictions of events occurring after the first recorded edition of this document. Steven Knapp points out that there is documented evidence of Christians plotting to write such false documents:
In 1784, the famous Indologist Sir William Jones wrote the following letter to Sir Warren Hastings, Governor General of India, confirming our suspicions that this was indeed part of their program:
“As to the general extension [spreading] of our pure faith [Christianity] in Hindoostan [India] there are at present many sad obstacles to it… We may assure ourselves, that Hindoos will never be converted by any mission from the church of Rome, or from any other church; and the only human mode, perhaps, of causing so great a revolution, will be to translate into Sanscrit… such chapters of the Prophets, particularly of ISAIAH, as are indisputably evangelical, together with one of the gospels, and a plain prefatory discourse, containing full evidence of the very distant ages, in which the predictions themselves, and the history of the Divine Person (Jesus) is predicted, were severally made public and then quietly to disperse the work among the well-educated natives.” (Asiatic Researches Vol. 1. Published 1979, pages 234-235. First published 1788).
Over all I think we can assume that this is more likely to be a forgery than a genuine prediction, though there is evidence that the Bhavishya Purana did exist historically and it is likely that it is a genuine document that has been added to and altered rather than a complete forgery.
Just suppose however that the sages really could predict the life of Jesus, Muhammad and the rise of the British Empire (but not be able to see a few decades later to its decline). Would that mean that we should become Christians? More likely it would validate the mystical powers of the Rishis. If we are to believe this part of the Hindu Scriptures then surely we should believe all! In this unlikely event we should see Jesus as an incarnation of God, but also believe the other predictions such as Krishna, samsara and reincarnation. It seems to me that this was not only an attempt at forgery but a futile one at that.
The Mantra Om Shri Brahamaputra Namaha
It was suggested that this mantra means “we salute to the illustrious son of God”, showing that Hindus really worshiped Jesus. Certainly the translation of Brahamaputra means the son of Brahma. Is this likely to be a reference to Jesus? Well, Wikipedia shows that Brahamaputra is a sacred river. This in itself does not sound likely to refer to Jesus, but more than that the article gives the origin of the name to be a sanskritisation of the Bodo name Bhullam-buthur, meaning gurgling river. I could not find any references to the mantra, but this being a regional sacred place I am willing to accept that it isn used locally.
So, the “son of God” here is a sanskritisation of a word, a coincidence. This does not sugest any link with Jesus.
We should also remember that there are many references in the bible that can be seen as validating Hinduism; “God of Gods”, “light of the world”, and “in the beginning was the word”. Finding a reference that looks like Jesus (but ould also cover many Hindu Gods) does not automatically mean that we should assume that we should all switch to Christianity as there are more references in the Bible to Hinduism. Perhaps Christians should become Hindus – if the Muslims did too the world really would be a much more peaceful and better place.
Some may say that the name of the river sounding like the Sanskrit for “son of God” is not a coincidence. However there are many cases of places having meanings in other languages. The Mayan civilisation for one. And near where I live there is a valley called Shugden Fold, but I don’t see that as a validation of Tibettan Buddhism.
The Mantra Om vidyshtayaha Namaha
It has been suggested that this mantra means “we salute the circumcised one”, again referring to Jesus. It may do, I have been unable to find a translation of ‘vidyshtayaha’ anywhere other than on a Christian site. Without any evidence of this word used elsewhere I would assume that this is something they wrote themselves.
Several other claims have been made, none of them stand up to scrutiny. It is worth remembering that even if a Christian appears sincere, which they may be personally, there is documented evidence of Christians lying and forging to gain converts. Unlike Hindus, who believe that untruth has consequences, they are taught that the end justifies the means and they will be forgiven. Many will not debate on a level playing field. If they make a claim check it – then think if what they say is true does it really validate Christianity more than Hinduism.
Western Hindu 
The next morning about 60 bhattacharyas came to open the temple early in the morning and doing so they came inside. I was on fire and at that moment called out to the bhattacharyas. “Come here. What does your Vedas say about God? What does Hinduism say about God? Who is true God in Hinduism? What are the characteristics of God mentioned in Hinduism? What does Hinduism say about how a man can go into the kingdom of God? Who is the true god that can bring salvation to mankind? For example Om Shri brahmaputhraye namaha- what does this mean? The only begotten son I worship thee. Who is the only begotten Son? It is the Lord Jesus Christ. Om shri Martha Namaha- the Holy Spirit of God I worship thee. Who is the Holy Spirit of God? Again it is the Lord Jesus Christ. Om shri Kannisuthayeha namaha-which means the Lord who is born to a virgin. Om vidyshtayaha Namaha- the Lord who had the circumcision I worship thee. Om shri Panchkayika namaha- the Lord who had the five injuries for the sake of mankind. Om shri vriksh shula arudayaka nama vrisha pondha marthil shulathil siluthayil baliyanavare, umbaye nan namaskarikunen. Who is the Lord who died on the cross of Calvary? All this is our Lord Jesus Christ. Our God is not a dead God. It is true that he came as a messiah to this world. He preached the gospel. He cancelled the devils and the demons. He healed the sick people ad brought salvation to so many people and finally he died on the cross of Calvary, he was buried but he did not become sand. Om Shri mrithyu nayaya namaha meaning the Lord who resurrected from the depths of the Earth on the third day I worship thee”. By the divine grace of God 13 people accepted the Saviour. Out of them 6 took baptism. Today they are strong believers.
Mr Biju the world will soon come to know that your scriptures are nothing but some hallucinations of a demented mind starved of spiritual food in the deserts of West Asia!!!
Thank you, this is a good example of why more Hindus should be educated. You described six out of sixty falling for deception, the wrong meaning given to a name and false scriptures written by Christians, the ones I discussed in my article, and that is very sad.
Hindus need to know more about their own religion, and more about the practice of evangelical Christians and Muslims. Many assume that because Hinduism teaches truthfulness and respect other religions do also. As you illustrated evangelicals believe that they have a mandate to use any means necessary, falsifying scriptures and lying about the meaning of others. They encourage divisiveness and hatred towards others.
No doubt those converted are among those who go around insulting other faiths, like the ones we have seen on this site, and abusing others. They will have replaces any notion of spirituality with a holier than though sense that they are saved, so they can behave however they like.
Hi Chris
So true…Hindus should learn the basics of their great faith and realise that we have more to share than to take…no religion can give us anything-we already have it…I reurned to the Hindu fold because it is truly all encompassing…universal
Regards
Steve
we should not worry about what others think and others do because it results in their own karma. We should simply understand that our god is Lord krishna and we should be simply devoted to him. We should believe that if others are doing wrong, they will be punished. We must undergo self realization-understanding who is god and what does our existence mean. We should not care for foolish conversions as you mentioned, because it does no good. What does religion mean?? There is only one religion i.e. DHARMA-which is much more than religion. What people say as ‘hinduism’ is the after effect of medieval invasions of culture like how christianity, churchianity and islam came. They all came from our culture. when they ask you for conversion, simply tell them that their concept of Krishna is so weak that they are even trying to spread it without even what their existence means. This is Kali yuga. Such things are common. If you notice, what so-called-converters are asking is that they want people to convert so that we can develop respect for god and be in his contact always. But they fail to understand that in our culture we are doing the same. They must understand themselves that they are misleading not only themselves but others too.
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Dear Brother,
Bhagavad Gita is a part of a great EPIC called Mahabarata written by Vyasa. He was a man just like us who penned down the attributes and qualities of God in the form of stories and puranas using his imagination. Man cannot find God using his knowledge and wisdom. God has to reveal himself to us. God reveals himself to those who sincerely desire the TRUTH. God is One and all roads does not lead to rome in the case of religion and faith. Religion was a man-made system tailored by his own understanding of God. That might have hurt you a bit, but that was not my intention. With this sharp message, as long as it is fresh in your mind, I urge you to search the truth till you find it. We spend hours and nights to succeed in this Earthly life? How much more precious and valuable is ETERNAL life? and to understand the purpose of our existence? I leave it to you!
All the best in your quest,
Jai Praveen
actually according to supreme court of india, hinduism shows a meaning of civilization along with the culture, so hinduism is same as u call persian or american, but for example even any muslim indian will not tell himself as hindu, but if u r in middle east (arab country) they wil write nationality india as HINDI in arabic, eventhough the person is non-hindu. so, i’m strongly with arayasamaja that shows that hinduism isn’t name of our religion, and I also agreed more with islam than christinity abt the divinity of god. B’coz Islam has one and only god, nothing beside him, or no step between god and humankind such as savior. but I am fearing of extrimism of Islam, as I’m seeing Islam as solution of so many human being question, and to increse the personal morality value, and I see christian as the biggest humantarian, b’coz they have devloped democfacy and personal rights plus they have got renesaa which is remarkable milestone of history of the world. even if someone converts tht doesn’t mean that he cannot read hindu scriptures to study, and some islamic scholars are trying to justify prophecy in hinduism by using bhavishya purana that has something mentioned abt acharya mahamada (but it doesn’t sound authentic and it has been discussed above that is why. ) and some scholars are using the sloka of bhagvad geeta that told us “sambhavami yuge yuge” (I wll born at every era to save the rightous) for example, u hav a glass of milk, u drinkng it by spoon, u take one from right side, and one from left side and than u say that this two sides are ok, otherwise the milk is not drinkable. it’s impossible. if u beleve in some slokas b’coz they are favouring u and u r disagree with others b’coz they are not favouring u means u r just favouring urself instead of favouring the truth.
B’coz i shows u the simple mathematical formula
God=true
true=god
and that’s why every religion said do ot lay.
I beleve in philosofy of islam of one god and our respect to him, i beleve in philosy of christianit abt the love of god. But I more like to live with the freedom of hinduism where u can pray the god by ur way, wht is need is just ur heart and ur submission to the god alimighty. and i’m also against the idol worship, again the human being worship, against the mythical things worships,
I have heard two islamic scholars, one is dr.zakir naik, and another is yusuf estes, first one is an indian and scond one is from germany, dr.zakir wants new muslims by debates and he used to show islam more authentical , but I more impressed by yusuf estes, who says u dont need to do anything expect of to be a true muslim. you can find their videos on youtube. if people wll look at u with respect and honor and they will see u as a rightous person and if they could think that see this christian/muslim people, how they are leaving peacefully! how they loving people! aha, wht the qualities they have! and if people impressed by ur simple life, sweet life more than this debates which compaes the religion and do hitlor like things that starts to make igo which is always creates problems between two materials.
my english is poor and keyboard is corrupted , so sorry,
may god bless u
aslaaam aalaykum au rahematuallah au barkatuhu
namste
v.4love
I don’t believe that you need to add anything to Hinduism. Most Hindus recognise one God and many Devas, similar to the archangels of the Judeo-Christian-Islamic tradition. Loving worship, and respect for God are part of Saiva Siddhanta and many other Bhakti traditions.
This is said with an utmost respect for the true Muslims, who see Islam as a call to service of God and not as a call to attack those on other paths.
Aum Namah Shivaya
Chris
you certainly dont know what u are saying, and dont know enough of islam. Allah is the shortening of Al ilah, a moon god of the pantheon of pantehists arabs of preislamic Jahilia, that the crazy Mohammed wanted to make the only repository of worship. The mahamada u talking about is a deceiver and illusionist, a ghost false prophet that by making wonders via demon powers he talks an Indian king in dreams saying that his religion is the true one, so hell make a religion thatll fool illitarates and spread havoc on the world, Dr Zakir is no doctor, and hes been caught in many lies already and what he talks about is Ahmaddiyas sect heresy of Islam, itself an heresy. Yusuf estes is another con man and u can see videos of him morphing into a demon or alien, just chek it. About Christ u seem to know very little since u are talking about catholicism, which is not christianism. Real idolatry is worshipping the creation in place of the creator, and in hinduism theres one god, but theres no prohibition of using tools like statues or drawings to grasp him, From where are u getting ur sources?, u are verily as many indians naive and ill informed. Research brother research
Sorry but i think you are very mislead about Islam. Allah, as another person commented to you is not what you think. Al Ilah was one of the many idols in Kabba, originally a hindu temple, as atested by the worship of the black stone which is the stone Jacob sleeps on in Genesis 28, and he has a vision of a stair in which angels come and go up and down. The angels are the devas, luminous powers, and the stair is likely a vision of the spine and the chakras. Later Jacob anoints the stone and in another passage water is pour on it as done with the Shiva lingam. He slept in a shiva linga that lied in the floor and he didnt see cos it was night, and after restoring it upwards because of his vision he called it BethEl, the house of God. In Jahilia, Al Manat, Uzza ( Usha ) and Al lat ( Lata ) where companions of Al Ilah and Mohammed slipped when the emperor of Jahilia proposed him that by accepting this “preeminent” angels in the cult of Islam he would convert to his religion, to later come back saying it was Satans deception that made him accept, and changed the revelation, that why you wont find him accepting them in Quran, but you will find Muhammad saying Allah has not daughters. Muhammed couldnt distinguish the voice of demons from the voice of God. That and many other insanities concerning Muhammad should make you frown and reconsider the well intentionned but quite mislead conception you have of Islam. As for christanism, theres plenty of evidence that Christ went to India and, as exceling yogi wanted to share Indian religion with the Israelites of that time. Unfortunately they, as barbarians as the muslims today didnt understand the deepness of Indian religion, or eastern religions by that matter and tried ot kill him and he had to go back to India, where he loved the people and was loved by them. Om Namah Shivaya
I am a Brahim,Hindu but i have one simple in our entire
Hindu history we have had great people come and go,
but can u find a person in entire Hindu History with following atrributes..
1) One with no Sin,even all our ansectors and kings had lived lifes filled with sin…..
2) Who loved and died for us
3) Who conqured the Grave……
Answer is Noname,Who can save us from our sins,we have a lot of good teaching of being good and do good but really who can save us from sin and give us salvation
i really wonder where are the Hindu Kings and teachers
now are they in Heaven where are they?Whats the Concept of Heaven in Hinduism is it for real?,If os its real then why as Hindu’s we are so earthly minded filled ambitions and buying land here and land there…
Pavan,
I am sorry that you are feeling disallusioned. Really, there are many people who have died for Hinduism, and many people who love hindu culture. Hinduism teaches that we all “conqure the grave”, and after many births will reach moksha. Vishnavites would point to Lord Rama as one with no sin, though all hindus believe that people can reach a sinless state. It sounds ike you have heard a lot of Christian propaganda. You could equally ask Christians where are the christian leaders who masacred the Catahrs in the crusades, could they really be given a reward by a loving God for killing pacifists, men women and children? Or did they later have a low birth because of the karma of the killings
Aum Shivaya
Chris
In Hinduism, find a person{s) with following qualities:
1. One who was addicted to wine, som much he drank his host dry.
2. One who threw the animals in water and drowned them.
3. One who instituted a systematic inquisition against non Hindus [as was done by Xevier in Gos against Hindus].
4. A person like Innocent III who sanctioned crusades.
5. Ones who burned Brunos and many sceintists.
Answer: Noname.
Hindus believe all are born SINLESS. Hindus do not bury but cremate, where are the graves to conquer? If need be conquer yourself.
Is Buddha in xian heaven or cburning in hell? Gandhi? Vivekanand?
Pavan……first of all, I doubt that you are a Brahmin…..No Brahmin or for that matter a Hindu will ever ask such a stupid question…….these type of questions are often asked by a convert Christian, posing himself as Hindu Brahmin……..
( I have come across such type of questions in various blogs)……….
For your enlightenment………Hinduism and Abrahamic religions ( Christianity is one of them) are pole apart…….there can’t be any comparison. …..so no point seeking answers of these questions in Hinduism………for example ,We don’t have this concept of Sin and Resurrection in Hinduism………similarly it appears you are not aware of deeds of so called followers of Christianity during medieval time ……its full of violence…….
lastly, ……if you are a real Hindu( which I doubt)…….try to know your religion before you ask such a irrelevant question….
I am Sure Mr. Pavan you are not a Bharahmin, you are a wolf wearing sheep skin. You are a Christian worker. You dont know what Sanadhana Dharma is.
Jesus is just an enlightened man who lived on earth. He also has a biological father like all of us have. He studied “Bhrahmavidhya” from Bharatham. He tried to spread Bharahma Vidhya to ignorant people, they crucified him. Jesus escaped from the cross (as he learned Hata Yoga) returned to Bharatham, lived and got Saamadhi when he was 125 years old. Sanadhana Dharma is the mother of all doctrines, the question is, how it is been copied logically or illogically ?
Pavan is a fakie. :d
He/She is Christian and calling him/her self as Brahim( not Brahmin)
And a Hindu can easily answer all the questions which he/she has asked. :p
Namste True Hindu
I had wondered about that myself…
christianity is a blend of jewish religion and ancient roman religion with the name of poor Christ who was made an illegal son of Mary.y Noble Christ is forgotten as a social revolutionary. thanks to Consestine who perpetuate roman empire by changing all.
so they have nothing to comment on hinduism.
I am proud to be a follower of sanatan dharma. Your words on others faith are disgraceful to Hinduism. you have to respect others faith then only you can be a good man as well as a hindu. I hope Jesus was a good man but the romans who killed him used his image after his death to propagate their political agenda. Some of his speeches are similar to Buddhism and hinduism says that he might be a buddist monk or hindu monk. i hope he was a buddist monk. Remember one thing that bible was not written by jesus. It says all about rome.
Hi chris,
See this PDF.
http://nushindusociety.org/test/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1929.0;attach=193
Hi ,
That PDF is about “Cobra doing Bilwa Archana to Sivalinga”
The name Hindu is derived from Arabic that was transformed to Indu, Sindu and Hindu. Can any one can show the followers or Krishna or Rama are Hindus? Hindu merely means Indian (in Arabic, Hindi means Indian and it also may have some thing to do with Hindu-Kush. Or in any of your religious scriptures the name Hindu is mentioned? I do not think so. There is no Hinduism, there is Brahmanism, with it’s caste system to safeguard their interests and to control others, including kings and be free loaders. Who eradicated Buddhism in India, why so very few followers of Jainism are left, what about the Spirit, nature worshippers? Brahmans have inflitrated their places of worship as well as installed their idols, no wonder even anthills are revered!!!
You have some very strange ideas and arguments:
Words change their meaning. Do you argue that ‘Artificial’ should mean ‘full of artistic or technical skill’, or that ‘Nice’ should mean ‘ignorant or unaware‘? The word ‘Hindu’ in English means a follower of Sanatana Dharma, one who gives ultimate authority to the Vedas. Most followers of Krishna or Rama would fall into this category.
Historically many religions have been used to justify monarchies, including Christianity and Islam. Have a look at the article where I show that the hereditary caste system is not intrinsic to Hinduism.
I think you will find that India gave refuge to Buddhists expelled by China, as it has historically given refuge to people of many faiths including Jews and Zoroastrians. As for spirit nature worship, they are alive and well within Hinduism. How ironic that you would criticise Hindus for suppressing nature worshippers and in the same post criticise the reverence of all life including anthills!
I’ve never heard a Christian reasonably explain “The kingdom of heaven is within you.” Sounds pretty Hindu to me.
“A” is the first and source of all the letters. Even so is God Primordial the first and source of all the world. (Thirukural 1:1)In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. (John 1:1-5)Behold! the angels said: “O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah (Quran 3:45)isa-putram mam viddhi kumari-garbha sambhavam (vedas 19:23)
Typical of an Indian christian ;in order to find some justification in your religion,do you have no other alternative but to appropriate Hindu Thought and Works as Confirming Christianity. BTW,Thirukural was supposed to have been written by Thiruvalluvar ,in Mylapore,Chennai.around the same time as Christ was born in the Bethlehem.So he was not referring to tany Biblical Statement,but the that which Hindus have always believed in,THE Shabdha Brahman.
Don’t use the Quran ,eitherfor your justification of Christ.it also states that Christ did not die and therefore there was no Victory over death.
“isa-putram mam viddhi kumari-garbha sambhavam (vedas 19:23)”
This is what Chris/Tandava Meant by his post,of Christians creating new texts in sanskrit to hoodwink ,those who are not very well versed in Scriptures.Now a days of InterNet and web, and with learning Sanskrit being more easy,people can easily see through propaganda.
I have yet to come across one decent,knowledgeable Hindu becoming a Christian-so far it has been the scum and garbage of Hinduism who are to quick to go where there is handouts-it’s pathetic, grow up you fools-remain Hindu and the solutions are right there-you just have to make an effort…look around you: the intelligent and learned around the world accepts Hinduism or its principles…there has to be something dynamic and overwhelming about Hinduism!!!! Get back into the Hindu fold and and make a real difference….Steve….Om Namo Shivaya….
Religion cannot save a man, but God can.
Jesus Christ came to the world as his own creation born to his own creation, but with pure undefiled blood and flesh just to make himself a sacrifice for his creation, “man.” He was not born to man as a man would be born, but he had to come as a natural man, so that no man says what do you know of man’s pain for you just landed from heaven. Man through disobedience (which is sin) brought death into his/her life. (Death here means not just passing out of this world, but entering hell to suffer forever without any break or interval.)
God made man in his own image. Man is Body (where you can feel heat, cold, pain, etc), Soul (from where your feelings originate like love, hatred, etc), and Spirit (the life inside man.) GOD is Father (father of all creation), Son (who obeys and fulfills the Father’s will. He is not a son to the father as is a son to his father in mankind. His existence with the Father is from the beginning, but is his name is Son as he obeys the Father in all, but a coexister with the Father), and the Holy Spirit (or God’s Spirit). God being infinite can separate himself into three different beings, yet he is the same one God. When you call on the Father or the Son or the Holy Spirit, they will all look at you and respond to you for He is one. Man being three Body, Soul, and Spirit is one and has one name for all the three. When you are called by name all the three in you respond as one or else you are sleeping or in subconscious state. If a man tries to separate his Body, Soul, and Spirit, it can cause devastation to himself/herself, but God can separate the three in man and the Body continue to live.
So God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit and Man is Body, Soul, and Spirit, the mirror image of God.
After a man passes out of this life, he gets a new body which does have feelings as the earthy body, but is not consumed as the worldly body. For example, if the man goes to hell, he will burn in its fire and will experience of the pain of fire without getting consumed or charred, so he continues to burn forever and experiences the pain forever. His yelling, crying, etc will not get him any help. So man will always be three-in-one and a single being always.
Man through sin earned death (Hell fire suffering). God did not want put off with his creation because of his disobedience. So, he allowed animal sacrifice, painful to listen, but why? The reason is Life for Life. Even the most healthy body without blood is a dead body. Life belongs to God. Blood which is the visually visible part of life belongs to God, that is why many non-vegetarian Jews and Christians do not eat blood. When a man sins/disobeys God, gets the curse of death (Hell suffering) unto himself/herself. The Priest would take the blood of the sacrificed animal, which was sacrificed for the man/woman, family, or a society to the presence of God in the Temple of God and sprinkle it at his feet pleading for mercy for the one or more for whom the sacrifice was made saying life has been taken, let the ones who brought the sacrifice be saved from death (Hell fire). Did people change after they made their sacrifice???????
In order to put out animal sacrifice and bring change in the heart of man, God had a better plan for man/woman, His most loved of all his creation. His plan was to blot out sin/disobedience to God from man along with the death (Hell fire suffering) that comes with it in a more powerful way. So, God sent His Son, His only begotten Son, i.e. God himself to replace the animal sacrifice that His blood be shed for mankind and no more of animals and that is the reason for Jesus Christ coming as man and performing the sacrifice with all the pain a man would experience in Hell forever if he/she went there and returned to Heaven and for sure he is coming back to take his reward for all the hard work he has done for man. Meaning those who are His will be safe, happy, and with all the goodness of life without any sin or defilement forever with Him, but others to Hell where his anger is revealed forever.
A man can get blessings for this life from any god, but to get life in Heaven with God forever, (that is escape Hell fire suffering) Jesus Christ alone can give.
When a person accepts Jesus Christ into his/her life there is joy and happiness untold, but does not know from why so much of joy, the reason is the soul within that person knows he/she has escaped Hell fire suffering, this is confirmed when the soul gets connected with its creator strengthening the conscience of the person in God.
As on date animal sacrifices cannot deliver anybody from their sins for Jesus Christ has performed all the sacrifices needed for mans salvation (escape from Hell fire suffering), all that a person needs to do is accept ones fault even of not knowing God in the way one should (for example if a child called a person daddy who is not his father [but his father’s enemy], the father will feel bad and will be accounted as sin) and ask God to come into your life. Jesus Christ will wash you with his Blood that was shed for you and make you his clean child and your job after becoming his child is to obey his word and live the life He desires so you walk with Him on earth with the best future ahead of you.
Remember God is God and no one can make an image of Him, though he took the form of man and lived as man for the sake of mankind, he is no man to make an image off. God is spirit, God is light, God is God worship him as He is. No man, no creature, no statue, or anything you name can represent God, worship him, pray to him directly as He is God and he will not share his Glory with any other, for He knows if he did share his Glory it will cause confusion.
Just accepting Jesus Christ as God alone will not keep a man/woman from hell, but after salvation (accepting Jesus Christ) continuing to live according to the word of God according to His will, will save you.
God bless you.
Jeswin,
This is such a dismal view of a petty and legalistic god that I think that even most Christians won’t accept it. A god who knowingly created people who would sin and then punish them with eternal torture – unless they themselves kill! This god likes killing and harm so much that he will not torture those who kill animals in his name. Then the strange masochistic act of punishing himself – what for? What kind of justice is it where punishing the wrong person or innocent animals is enough? Even most human courts are above this. This god then changes his law so that animal sacrifices are no longer any good – not the eternal and unchanging God but a fickle one willing to break deals. If you believe that God made man in his own image then you make an image of God every time you take a photograph. Also your belief that accepting Jesus alone is not enough contradicts that of most Christians and the Bible, remember the sinner crucified next to Jesus.
Though there are a few Hindu sects that d accept animal sacrifice, the majority see God as peaceful and loving. he would not want us to hurt any creature unnecessarily. He would not torture people eternally for being as he made them.
Aum Shivaya
Tandava
So true Tandava…
Only brainless sheep would follow such a religion….burn in Hell, Animal sacrifice, devotion to man as flesh, no real understanding of Atman(soul)…hopefully they progress from childlike pre school and graduate to enter the University of Hinduism and beyond (understanding the true meaning of the Self)…Steve
Jeswin, how very heartwarming sir. Well, your god makes the fire proof bodies exclusively to ‘survive’ in fire hell and never run out of shelf life; One heck of a body that one is. But what a waste of talent. Those amazing fire proof bodies would benefit our fire departments a bunch; please send an appeal to god if he can spare some of those bodies. BTW we don’t have problem how bad the dudes are, after all they acquire good karma while they are here on earth by means of saving peoples lives!!! Mutually beneficial, indeed.
Taava,
God created man in his own image and gave him the power of discrimination that he himself posessed, but unfortunately sin was lurking there even in the garden of eden and Adam and Eve chose sin over goodness. Sin was there present on earth because of a fallen angel called lucifer. Christ was a part of God and he was sent into this world to redeem those who had fallen into sin because of using their power of discretion in the wrong way. Please remember Christ’s death on the cross put an an end to animal sacrifice. He himself became the sacrificial lamb whose blood washes away all our sins. There is no hope for mankind without Christ. Christ died for us on the cross and rose again on the third day to show that there is eternal life after death. Christ came into this world to bring the hope of existence after death as a human being in heaven sitting and singing eternally beside the Father (God) in heaven. That is the message of hope and triumph that Christianity brings to those who believe that you could become a cat or a dog in your next life.
Isaac,
I am aware of the Christian philosophy that everyone is steeped in sin. If you think about it if you believe that God is all powerful this makes him a very dismal God indeed. The fact that you think that God wants animal sacrifices, but then sacrificed his son tells me that you have been taught by fundamentalist American Baptists – most Christians don’t even believe in this bloodthirsty God who was propitiated by the sacrifice of his son.
Think about the logic of that for a bit. If Jesus was God then the crucifixion becomes some sort of masochistic exercise – he is punishing himself. On the other hand if Jesus was separate from God then it becomes an act of extreme cruelty. Neither fit with my belief in God as immanent Love (Premaiva Sivamaya, Satyam eva Parashivah – God Siva is Immanent Love and Transcendent Reality).
The message of fundamentalist Christianity is a step down for any Hindu. One has to believe in a dismal God who leaves his creation steeped in sin when he could remove it. One has to believe in a masochistic or cruel God. One has to believe in a petty and legalistic God who will condemn good people who sincerely seek him to eternal hell while at the same time rewarding even the most evil, debauched Christian with paradise. One has to believe in a God who is torturing your friends and ancestors for eternity because of a “mistake” sincerely made in a life that is a blink of the eye in comparison. (I do not include all Christians’ beliefs in this, but the fundamentalist ones you describe).
As for bringing hope to people who believe you could become a cat or dog in your next life – many Hindus believe that this is not possible and many more believe that for someone to go to a lower animal in one lifetime from a human would be so rare that it only happens a handful of times in the life of each universe.
Taava,
The Christian Scripture never says that even a debauched, evil Christian could enter the gates of heaven just because he is a Christian. One has to be a Christian in thought, word and deed in order to be eligible for that. Please understand that God is neither masochistic or sadistic. God is full of love and love that pardoned the sins of even his crucifiers. There are many Terms used in the Vedas so clearly about the Savior:
Prajapathirdevebhyam Athmanam Yagnam Kruthva Prayaschittaha.
Meaning: God offered Himself as the sacrifice for atonement of sins of the world.
Yagnovy Bhuvanasya Nabhi.
Meaning: Sacrifice is the most important backbone of the world.
Sarvapapa Pariharo Rakthaprokshanamavasyam. Thadraktham Paramathmeva Punyadana Baliyagam.
Meaning: Blood sprinkling is necessary for cleansing of sins. This blood is the result of God Himself offering His own blood through a sacrifice.
So please understand that God had to send none lesser than his son to atone for the sins of mankind. If God had remained God, then we humans would never acknowledge that he knew the problems of mankind. God had to come in the form of human flesh for people to be perceived by us as having understood our problems. One has to become an ant to know about the problems of an ant. So God out of love and not out of any masochistic/sadistic tendencies sent His only begotten Son to die on calvary for the remission of the sins of mankind.
Please also know that we humanbeings are endowed with limited wisdom in spite of all our progresses and achievements. We cannot understand when time started and when it will end and we don’t even know where space ends. So let us in all humility accept our limitations and trust the one true God, Alpha and Omega in simple child-like faith. God bless you.
It appears that you don’t even know your own doctrine. The only sin not forgiven of Christians is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Providing they don’t do that, even the most debauched Christian will enter heaven. Your scriptures do say that, here are just a couple of places:
As for the supposed terms in the Vedas – so many Christians make up false quotes from the scriptures that appear to indicate that Hindu scriptures point to Jesus but in fact don’t exist (read the post for an example). Please give me the exact references to where these supposed “quotes” from the vedas come from.
Please explain why either God punishing himself is not masochistic or God punishing someone innocent is not sadistic – bear in mind he is all powerful and could easily remove sin without these actions.
It seems that by just translating Christian Dogma into Sanskrit,They are passing it of as Vedic mentions etc.which is laughable,as these people also go about decrying the very Vedas which they use to justify their dogma.I’ll not call it ‘religion’ as religion uplifts a person from an animal to Human. Their use of threats of Hell/Sin,&rewards reduces a human to a sub-human state.
Sita,
Yes I have seen this before – lots of Christian texts in Sanskrit that they vaguely say “come from the vedas”. Its a good point that they decry the vedas. Maybe Isaac can answer this: “do you believe that the vedas are a source of truth?”. If he answers yes then we can continue to follow them, and if he answer no then we have to wonder why he bothers to talk about them.
From his IP address he is in Bangalore, and from what I have seen many Indian Christians have been hoodwinked by American Baptists – who are much more extreme than most Christians here in the UK. The Baptists teach the Indian Christians a minimal amount about Christianity and give them false information about Hinduism.
They are causing us a lot of problems & strife by trying to change the demography of our country.They use a lot of Brainwashing techniques, targeting people who are in need of help or emotional support.Even professional psychiatric Counsellors are known to do this,as are educational institutions run by SeventhDay Adventists,which abuse the traditions their students come from.I’ve personally come across many such evangelists.They try to use the traditional hospitality/[politeness extended by Hindus to abuse their traditions.
Sita,
Let me say I have very high repect for the Vedas and have my greatest love for my Hindu brothers and sisters. I have friends who are Hindus who are closer to me than my own brothers and sisters. But I take this opportunity to inform you that Christianity is as much an Indian religion as Hinduism is. St. Thomas a disciple of Christ came to India and was killed by Hindu fanatics ( a very small minority even these days) in Madras and St. Thomas Mount stands as a testimony even until this day. Who brought Hinduism into India? The very word, “Hindu” never existed in Indian liturgy. People were animists and they worshiped spirits of their forefathers. The Brahmins who came from Central Asia cleverly integrated the majority of the people into a faith they built around fantasy. So please don’t even mention about hospitality given to Christians by the majority. We are sons of the soil and we have embraced Christianity due to the ingenious caste system devised by the Brahmins to keep non Brahmins as their footstool. We have not been brainwashed by any American Baptists. We have been Christians and my forefathers have died as Christians serving the less fortunate and the sick. We have tasted the love of Jesus Christ by the works of his children throught their educational institutions, hospitals and other service organizations. It looks as though you are enjoying the hospitality of England to blaspheme the Christian faith. It also looks as though you have studied in England and are working in England and hence you are misusing the hopitality of the British. You can trace my IP address and if you want I can also give you my postal address. I am not afraid to put myself in harms way for the love of Christ. In him we live and without him we die.
As for Tava needing the references from where I had taken Sanskrit quotes, please read as below:
In the RIG VEDA, Book 10, Chapter 7, says about the prediction that the Son of God, will come down to the earth and sacrifice his life to save mankind from sin. In Chapter 18 of the SAMA VEDA, says:
“We worship the one born of the virgin…
We worship the one nailed to the wood………
We worship the one who moved over water…………
We worship the one with five wounds…………..
We worship the one seated at the bosom of the Father……..
And in RIG-VEDA, that says that “..a crown of reeds would be put on the head of the Son of God” and in the Bible in Mathew 27: 29, it is written ” They made a crown of thorns and pressed it on Jesus’ head”
I am afraid that you are either deceiving or have been deceived. Here is Rig Veda
Book 7 chapter 10Book 10 chapter 7:As you can see it is a hymn to Agni with no reference to a prediction of the son of God sacrificing himself for sin. As for the Sama Veda Chapter 18, you don’t say which book but I have read that chapter in all the books and again nothing that you claim.
Perhaps you could tell me where in the Rig Veda it talks about a crown of reeds. I have read false claims on Christian sites that book 10 chapter 90 talks about a crown of thorns, but this chapter is clearly about creation and mentions no such thing.
Something that Hindus should bear in mind is that whereas Hindu holy men are bound to satya (truth), many Christian leaders believe that lies and deception are acceptable if they lead to a conversion. Such made up references and scripts are common on Christian sites.
PS: Historians think that there is little evidence that St Thomas ever went to India, it is more than likely legend.
Isaac, my dear brother….think for a minute,if your Christ is mentioned in the Vedas (which is a joke), it merely confirms the supremacy of the Vedas doesn’t justify your pre school, philosophy….. so read the Vedas with a teacher, if you can….and if you are really honest with yourself, you will accept the fact that the Vedas are by far the supreme scriptures and they belong to all mankind….educate yourself brother….and Realise your Self….(the ultimate in Hinduism)…..
Thanks Tandava ,for the very illuminating response & for the links,too.By the way,Does it really matter where I am situated for me to write about what I experienced.
To Isaac :Even if I were in Britain,There is no question of Charity,as I’d pay my taxes as I do in India. You believe in so much falsity,it is laughable to even respond to them.That Brahmins came from elsewhere & caste factor are all used by Christians in India to perpetuate your lie,that you have forgotten even the teachings of Him whom you claim to follow-that of kindness.Apparently he failed to mention Truthfulness &Honesty in his teachings .Among that is the fact that most Christian institutions in India,get subsidised by the Indian TaxPayers[most of whom are Hindus],& Hindus are admitted only after Christians are given admission first,even if they got lesser marks than Hindus;and also,the Hindus,who are admitted also pay the full fees.So there is No Question of Charity as far as educational institutions go.If you come into my house & abuse my practices &things I revere,anaturally you are abusing my hospitality;I was not talking about countries &them allowing immigrants etc;which they do to fulfill their needs ,so again no question of Charity.So much for ‘Christian’Humility. And it is not as easy for Hindus to operate Educational institutions as other minorities,in India.
@Isaac
Read this
http://apostlethomasindia.wordpress.com/2010/05/11/pope-denies-st-thomas-evangelized-south-india-ishwar-sharan/
http://www.rediff.com/news/2006/nov/22pope.htm
Pingback: A Christian tries to convert me using false Hindu Scriptures « Hindu Internet Defence Force
Click to access Analysis_Of_The_Nine_Signs.pdf
1
Nine Signs of Christ
In Rigveda??
An Introduction To How Certain Christians Have Abused Hindu Religious
Books To Establish False Claims For The Christian Faith
Dr. Johnson C. Philip
Dr. Saneesh Cherian
A Statue Of God Prajapati: Is He Jesus Christ? 2
Analysis Of The Nine Signs
A good number of preachers, mostly pulpit-savvy Hindu-converts, have been claiming for the
last 100 years that they came to Christ after they read about Jesus Christ from Hindu holy
scriptures known as Vedas. A Tract by the name of “Sacrifice” is often promoted by these
people.
According to these tracts and books, Rigveda gives nine signs of Christ. Quotations are given
in their books to show how these nine signs match Christ exactly. Ignorant Christians are
highly excited on hearing these false claims. They often tell Hindus, “Jesus is there in YOUR
holy books. Just read and believe your own holy books”. Knowledgeable Hindus are puzzled
by all this because on one hand they do not find these quotations in their book, but on the
other hand they do not expect such lies from a Christian crowd.
Time has come for the Christian community to realize that the “Nine Signs Of Christ In
Vedas” is a myth, a falsehood perpetrated by certain Hindu-converts to gain popularity.
These signs were in turn picked up by many Christians, and they are everywhere now. Two
men who have written numerous books on this topic are Dr. Koshy Abraham and Dr. Jospeh
Pandinjarekkara. In this book we will analyze their claims to show that their claims are
nothing short of white lies, and also that many of the quotations alleged by them are pure
fabrications.
We will first quote each of the Nine Points exactly as it stands in the original article/tract, and
then quote the supporting passage which have been given in the two books. (Titles and
pages have been mentioned in the previous chapter). The first bunch of quotations below
each point are furnished by Dr. Koshy Abraham, and the second set by Dr. Padinjarekara. We
will also quote profusely from the article of Dr. Krishnarao published in Hindu Vishwa in
which he questions the validity and genuineness of the quotations advanced by the Prajapati
people.
Alleged Sign 01 Of Christ From Vedas: “It (the lamb) must be without blemish”
Proof/quotation offered By Koshy Abraham:
• This man must be like gold from head to toe. (Chandogya Upanishad).
• This man is above all sins. (Chandogya Upanishad)
Proof/quotation offered By Padinjarekara:
• Brihadarayaka Upanishad says that he consumes and destroys sin through fire.
Analysis: Neither of the Prajapati proponents above has quoted from the Rigveda. They
produce quotations only from other Hindu holy books, yet these quotations do not say that
“the lamb should be without blemish”. Much linguistic torturing would be required to fit the 3
quotations with the first point that the lamb must be without blemish. The Hindus
understand this and they say:
• There is NO statement in the entire Chandogya Upanishad that the object of sacrifice
should be without blemish (Dr. Krishnarao).
•
Alleged Sign 02 Of Christ From Vedas: “Balusu Bush Must Be Tied Around Its Head”
Proof/quotation offered By Koshy Abraham:
• Koshy Abraham CHANGES “balusu” to wild-vine so the quotations becomes: “wild
vine must be tied on its head”. The following are is the supporting quotation: A 12
yard vine should be tied around the head of the HORSE used in the sacrifice.
(Shatpath Brahman)
Proof/quotation offered By Padinjarekara:
• Padinjarekara: He also changes “balusu”to wild-vine. But he is unable to demonstrate
a quotation either from Rigveda or from its commentaries. He therefore brings in the
EXCUSE that “the importance here is NOT to wild-vine or to crown of thorns, but the
act of SEPARATING for sacrifice.
Several things become obvious immediately from the above exercise of the two genelemen.
Mr. Koshy Abraham had to abandon the widely circulated claim about the “Balusu Bush” and
substitute a phrase (wild-vine) of his own. But even here he could find only a HORSE, not the
Prajapati or sacrificial lamb around whose head the vine is tied. Of course, he and others
have claimed that the horse sacrificed in the Ashwamedha represents Lord Jesus. Nothing
could be more ridiculous, and the details of this are given in the portion that described
Ashwamedha sacrifice.
Dr. Padinjarekara is more honest and he does not go hunting for imaginary statements to
demonstrate the imaginary bush which was placed on the head of the imaginary sacrificial
animal. Rather, he brings in a very interesting excuse that “the importance here is NOT to
wild-vine or to crown of thorns, but the act of SEPARATING for sacrifice”. The questions is,
where is the proof in the Rigveda for his argument ? After all, they are all trying to prove
everything from Rigveda, is it not ?
Further, when the venerable “Hindu Pundit” and “Acharya” wrote the original tract about
“Prajapati Sacrifice” in the thirties, he said in no uncertain terms that: “Rigveda STRESSES
the following qualifications for the true sacrificial animal”. Thus when a modern-day writer
disputes the claim of this “Acharya”, he is accepting that the article written by the Acharya
was fraudulent. (Full copy of the tract is given in another location). 4
The Hindus have also gone through their books and make the following observation:
• In the 100 chapters of the Shatpath Brahman, there is NO such statement (Dr.
Krishnarao).
Alleged Sign 03 Of Christ From Vedas: “It Must Be Tied To Sacrificial Post”
Neither of the writers is able to demonstrate this quotation from the Rigveda. Here is their
tortured explanation:
Proof/quotation offered By Koshy Abraham:
• Koshy Abraham: Purusha Prajapati was assumed to be an animal, and was tied to the
post. (Rigveda). The sacrificial animal should not be killed without tying it to a post.
(Shatpath Brahman).
Proof/quotation offered By Padinjarekara:
• Padinjarekara: So the gods tied Prajapati similar to a sacrificial animal. (Shatpath
Brahman).
It is obvious that there is NO support for this point in the Rigveda. Since this point is a part of
the original tract known as SACRIFICE, this once again goes to demonstrate that this tract
was a fraud perpetrated upon innocent and trusting Christian folk.
The Hindu response is as follows:
• There is NO reference in the entire book that says that the sacrificial animal “must be
tied to the post”. (Dr. Krishnarao).
•
Alleged Sign 04 Of Christ From Vedas: Nails Must Be Driven Into Its Four Legs Till The Bleed
Proof/quotation offered :
• NEITHER of the writers is able to produce a single supportive quotation either from
the Rigveda or from its commentaries.
Interestingly, here is a point at which many of the Prajapati pulpit speakers vex eloquent.
They mention this point attributing it to Rigveda, and then weep for Christ the Prajapati who
had to suffer nail-wounds and bleed till he died. Unfortunate for them, there is no such
statement in the Rigveda or other Vedic literature. Even the combined forces of the 5
Prajapati proponents have not been able to locate a single such a reference. So they have
silently dropped this point from their books, though the original tract written by Adhyaksha
Anubhavananda still continues to propagate this point.
The clever way in which the more active writers have dropped this point silently points to
the fraudulent nature of the tract written by Adhyaksha Anubhavananda.
Alleged Sign 05 Of Christ From Vedas: “The Cloth Covering The Goat Should Be Divided
Among The Four Priests”
Proof/quotation offered :
• NEITHER of the writers is able to produce a single supportive quotation either from
the Rigveda or from its commentaries.
Koshy Abraham cleverly changes this point to “the skin of the sacrificial animal should not be
cut”. Then he launches into a verbal acrobatics to show that this statement is equivalent to
the original point that the cloth covering the goat should be divided among the four priests,
etc. Any intelligent person can see that there is NO resemblance between these statements.
If the skin is not cut, how can it be divided among four priests? This point is discussed below.
However, this point — that the cloths should be distributed — forms an important part of the
tract written by Adhyaksha Anubhavananda. This tract is being distributed by many naive
Christians even today, though this point has been demonstrated to be a hoax. This should
not surprise the more inquiring readers because the entire Prajapati Edifice stands upon
imaginary pillars joined together by the glue of deceptive arguments.
Alleged Sign 06 Of Christ From Vedas: “None Of Its Bones Must Be Broken”
Proof/quotation offered:
• Both of the writers quote the same passage from Eitereya Brahman. This is surprising
because the original tract says that the quotation is found in Rigveda. Eitereya
Brahman is only a commentary of Rigveda but not the Rigveda itself. For charity we
can assume that the original writer took quotations not only from Rigveda, but from
the entire Rigvedic family. But even then, the quotation produced by them is
meaningless as can be verified by referring to the technical section below. The
following are the quotations:
• Koshy Abraham: It is said that all 26 ribs of the sacrificial animal should be kept safe
without any blemish. (Eitereya Brahman). 6
• Padinjarekara: It is said that all 26 ribs and also other bones of the sacrificial animal
should be kept safe without any blemish. (Eitereya Brahman).
Bones being kept SAFE and without any BLEMISH does not automatically mean that bones
should not be BROKEN. Further, the original tract by Adhyaksha Anubhavananda expressly
states that Rigveda says that bones should not be BROKEN.
The falsehood of the claim and the supporting quotations are recognized by our Hindu
friends who say:
• Prajapati has no bones. Further, there is NO such statement that the BONES of the
sacrificial animal should not be broken (Dr. Krishnarao).
This again is a witness to fraudulent nature of the Nine-Point Prajapati sacrifice.
Alleged Sign 07 Of Christ From Vedas: “The Goat Should Be Given A Drink Of Soma Juice”
Proof/quotation offered:
• NEITHER of the writers is able to produce a single quotation supporting this
statement either from the Rigveda or from its commentaries.
Interestingly, Adhyaksha Anubhavananda was very emphatic in the tract now titled
SACRIFICE that such a statement IS there in the Rigveda. The deception becomes apparent
when neither he, nor any of his disciples are able to produce a single quotation from the
Rigveda or from the entire Vedic literature to support this point.
Alleged Sign 08 Of Christ From Vedas: “After It Has Been Slain, It Must Be RESTORED To Life
Again”
Proof/quotation offered:
• NEITHER of the writers is able to produce a single quotation either from Rigveda or
from its commentaries. The quotations given from other sources are irrelevant and
only meant to confuse the people. This can be verified by referring to the technical
section in the next chapter. Here are the quotations produced by them:
Amazingly, Koshy Abraham confesses the following: “The sacrificial animal DOES NOT LIVE
again. Brahmanas say that its meat is eaten by those who sacrifice it. But please note what
the Shatpath Brahman says about Prajapati Sacrifice: Prajapati sacrificed his own body for 7
the gods. Therefore we can assume that he receives back his body”. If assumption is
evidence, then anything in the world can be proved with the help of clever assumptions.
Padinjarekara brings another clever assumption: “When a tree is cut down, then new shoots
come up from the stem that is left”.
The question is, WHERE in Rigveda is the quotation that the sacrificial animal should be
brought back to life?
Obviously, Koshy Abraham accepts his FAILURE to find out any Rigvedic passage, and then
tries a debaters trick. Padinjarekara is not all that honest and therefore he produces an
irrelevant quotation, as though all the readers are fools and morons who cannot see the
difference between his statement and the actual point. This is a bad way of treating the
audience in a presumably evangelistic book, especially when they belong to another religion.
Dishonesty is surely not a virtue for Christians!
Alleged Sign 09 Of Christ From Vedas: “Its Flesh Should Be Eaten”
Proof/quotation offered:
• NEITHER of the writers is able to produce a single quotation from Rigveda or its
commentaries to support this point. The quotations from other sources are invalid
and irrelevant, as can be verified by referring to the technical section in the next
chapter. Here are what they say:
• Koshy Abraham: This portion (Shatpath Brahman) speaks about a sacrifice known as
“Vajpeyam”. This is similar to the Grain offering in the Bible. In it the items offered
were food for those who made the offering.
• Padinjarekara: Prajapati gave himself for the gods, so he became the food for gods.
(Shatpath Brahman).
Obviously, the point exists only in the mind of the forger and his followers, not in the
Rigveda or the in the Vedic literature. Hindus recognize this and say:
• “Such a statement is NOT found in the Shatpath Brahman” (Dr. Krishnarao).
These Christians are fooling not only the Hindus, but are also deceiving other Christians.
In summary: The Nine-Point Prajapati proponents have been stating their case for almost
seven decades now. They have been using all the available media to convince people that
this Nine-Point sacrifice is there in the Rigveda. In fact the Nine-Point Sacrifice of the
Prajapati has even become a Shibboleth for many Christians. However, when asked to prove
their point, neither the 160 page book of Padinjarekara, nor its 201 page brother birthed by 8
Mr. Koshy Abraham has been able to produce even a single point. These quotations simply
DO NOT exist in the Rigveda. They are a FORGERY and FRAUD. As repeatedly said in this
book, the Prajapati Theology stands upon pillars of deception, bound together by the
cement of false interpretation.
Additional Signs Of Christ From Vedas
Out of nine classic signs propagated in the name of RIGVEDA, Dr. Padinjarekara tries to
authenticate only six. He omits three of the classic signs, and substitutes three of his own
invention. Similarly, Dr. Koshy Abraham also tries to demonstrate only six and invents four of
his own. Both of them add a few new signs, and these signs are given below:
Alleged Sign 10 Of Christ From Vedas: “His people should disown him” (Point 3 in
Padinjarekara and Abraham)
Proof/Quotation Offered:
• Koshy Abraham: The father, mother, brethren, and the relatives of the sacrificial
ANIMAL should PERMIT it to be sacrificed. (Eitereya Brahman 2:6).
Padinjarekara repeats the same point as above.
Permitting an ANIMAL under one’s ownership to be sacrificed is not the same as Prajapati’s
PEOPLE (FAMILY MEMBERS) disowning him. An animal has NO family relationship with
humans, and one has to be a moron to believe that the above quotation from the Eitereya
Brahman says so.
Further, the reader should know that the above quotation (or even the section) cited by
Koshy Abraham, Joseph Padinjarekara, and many others DOES NOT EXIST in Eitereya
Brahman. It is a FRAUD! Koshy Abraham is very emphatic in his book (Architect, Page 176)
that it is in 6th section. However, there are only 5 sections in Panchika 2, and this is a FALSE
citation. More details of this are given in the volume of Deceptions Perpetrated by the
Prajapati Proponents. This fraud is emphasized by Hindu writers also who know their own
books better that others. Here is what they say:
• That this quotation is false can be understood by merely checking the reference
number. The Second Kanda of Eitereya Brahman has only 5 chapters. However, the
quotation cited is alleged to be from the NONEXISTENT 6th chapter. (Dr. Krishnarao). 9
Alleged Sign 11 Of Christ From Vedas: “He suffers in silence” (Point 4 in Padinjarekara, 5 in
Koshy Abraham)
Proof/Quotation offered:
Both of the writers quote the same passage from Rigveda, but interpret it differently.
• Padinjarekara: Just as the sacrificial horse is tied to the pole, I am also tied to the
pole. I do not want to be rescued. (Rigveda 5:46:1).
• Koshy Abraham: The yoke which brings and takes away the stain of sin, that I bear. I
do not want rescue from this yoke.
It is obvious that there is no statement to the effect that “he must suffer in silence”. Rather
this statement is an artificial derivative from a passage that does not say anything about the
presumed Prajapati Sacrifice.
Koshy Abraham goes on to quote Rigveda 1:162:17 to support the statement that he must
suffer in silence. Here is the interpretation of the passage:
• When the sacrificial animal being led to the altar cries and hisses and refuses to
move, people kick, punch, and beat it with whips.
Several observations can be made. First, this reference has NO reference to the sufferings
during sacrifice. Second, this has NO connection with Prajapati. Third, since the animal cries
and hisses during this period, it does not match with the statement that he should suffer in
“silence”. Recognizing this, this is what the Hindu writer says:
• The subject of the quoted sloka (5:46:1) is praise for the God Consciousness in the
Universe. Neither this sloka, nor the 10500 slokas stipulate that Prajapati should
suffer in silence. (Dr. Krishnarao).
Alleged Sign 12 Of Christ From Vedas: Blood should be shed (Point 6 in Padinjarekara)
Since Christ’s blood was shed on the cross, a lot of people are attracted when it is alleged
that the Hindu Vedic literature also says the same thing. However, this is a fraudulent claim.
The following are the quotations produced by the advocates:
• Padinjarekara quotes the slokas that say that when a tree is cut, sap comes out.
When a man is slaughtered, blood comes out. Koshy Abraham also repeats the same
ideas and cites Brih. Upanishad, 3:9:28.
10
It is obvious that they are unable to produce a quotation that says that blood should be
shed.
In summary, the Prajapati-Christ story is a big myth. It has been perpetrated by Christians for
the last 100 years only because listeners never asked whether these things are so. Here are a
few observations that everyone must keep in mind
• Christians implicitly trust when someone makes a truth-claim
• As a result, the Christian community trusted the false claim made by many in the
name of Prajapati-Christ-Vedas
• Numerous modern writers took this falsehood and developed it further. This includes
people like Dr. Joseph Padinjarekkara, Dr. Koshy Abraham, Arvindaksha Menon,
Sadhu Chellappa, Acharya Daya Prakash
• Not a single one of them has been able to show from Vedas the quotations that they
use
• Many of the references that they have given have turned out to be non existent,
which is deception.
• It is high time for Christians to reject the Prajapti-Vedas-Christ myth and lie
A Statue Of Prajapati: Is He Lord Jesus Christ?
I see Isaac referring to Rig veda Book10, Chapter 7, and Tandava instantly pulling out Book7, Chapter10! Was that an oversight or ???
Yes it was, however the oversight was the labelling. the quote I gave was in fact book 10 chapter 7. I have now corrected it, thanks.
I don’t understand why christians are so passionate to Jesus. After he is just a human, who took the knowledge from the vast Hindu scripture during his invisible periods, those periods during which the Bible does not specify anything. The merge teaching of Bibile is exacat replication of many Hindu books including Bhagvat Gita. There is nothing new Christ preaches than what is mentioned in Hindu Scriptures.
Do not trust all this miracles happening, becasue what you see and hear is not the right. Turn to yourself, there is Science behind our ancient Hindu Culture. It is tamperred a lot from Western world. Infact all christian should come in this culture and Muslims too. The world will be much peaceful to live. We all should be educated what is improtance of this culture, it is a way of life.
Come back my brother, we are standing to accept you all as we have accepted all your nonsence, we will accept your senseful Decision..
What would you say about the prophecy in the book of Isaiah about the coming of Christ as the son of God? Please read the following text my dear brother about the birth of Christ several millenia:
Bible prophecy: Isaiah 7:14
Prophecy written: Between 701-681 BC
Prophecy fulfilled: About 5 BC
In Isaiah 7:14, the prophet Isaiah addresses the “house of David,” meaning the family and descendants of King David, and speaks of a virgin being pregnant with a child, and giving birth to the child. Isaiah says this in the context of it being a sign from God. He also says that the child would be referred to as “Immanuel,” which means, “God with us.”
The New Testament books of Matthew and Luke record details involving the birth of Jesus, who was born about 700 years after the time of Isaiah, saying that he was born of the virgin Mary and is the Son of God. Because he is the Son of God, Jesus literally can be referred to as “God with us.”
Non-Christian scholars have challenged this interpretation. They say that the Hebrew word “almah,” which is the word that Christian Bibles often translate as “virgin,” actually means “young maiden” or “young woman.” It should be noted that the Old Testament uses the word to refer to young, unmarried women, and that unmarried women were culturally and religiously expected to be virgins. One example can be found in Genesis 24:43, where it speaks of a person being sought as a bride for Isaac. – Copyright © George Konig, Ray Konig and 100Prophecies.org
Isaiah 7:14:
Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.
The Messiah would be born in Bethlehem
Bible prophecy: Micah 5:1-2
Prophecy written: Sometime between 750-686 BC
Prophecy fulfilled: About 5 BC
In Micah 5:2, there is a prophecy that reveals that Bethlehem would be the birthplace of the Messiah.
As pointed out in the book, 100 Prophecies, by George Konig and Ray Konig: “The prophecy is effective in a simple way: It eliminates all other cities and towns throughout the world as a place in which the Messiah could be born. It narrows the possibilities to one tiny village just south of Jerusalem.”
And throughout the span of the past 27 centuries, from the days of the prophet Micah up through the present time, Bethlehem is credited as being the birthplace for only one person who is widely known throughout the world. And that person is Jesus Christ.
The New Testament books of Matthew and Luke name the town of Bethlehem as the birthplace of Jesus. Matthew 2:1-6 describes the birth of Jesus as the fulfillment of Micah’s prophecy.
In recent years, however, some non-believers have attempted to discredit Matthew’s interpretation of Micah 5:2 by claiming that the prophecy refers to a person named Bethlehem, not a town name Bethlehem. This claim has been widely circulated on the Internet by a college professor who describes himself as a former Christian minister.
The first problem with this claim appears in Micah 5:1. In that verse, the prophet establishes that he is speaking of Bethlehem the town, not Bethlehem the person, by setting up a context in which he contrasts the great city of Jerusalem with the humble town of Bethlehem.
A second problem with the claim is that there is also evidence outside of the Bible that shows that Micah 5:2 was regarded as a Messianic prophecy involving the town of Bethlehem. Here is an excerpt from the Jerusalem Talmud, which is a collection of Judaism-related writings completed about 1600 years ago:
“The King Messiah… from where does he come forth? From the royal city of Bethlehem in Judah.” – Jerusalem Talmud, Berakoth 5a. – Copyright © George Konig, Ray Konig and 100Prophecies.org
Micah 5:1-2:
1 Marshal your troops, O city of troops, for a siege is laid against us. They will strike Israel’s ruler on the cheek with a rod.
2 “But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times.”
The Messiah would come from the tribe of Judah
Bible prophecy: Genesis 49:10
Prophecy written: As early as 1400 BC
Prophecy fulfilled: About 5 BC
In Genesis 49:10, Jacob is blessing his 12 sons. This blessing was also a prophecy. Jacob told his son Judah that his descendants would be rulers and that one of his descendants will be an ultimate ruler. According to the NIV translation: “The scepter will not depart from Judah, nor the ruler’s staff from between his feet, until he comes to whom it belongs and the obedience of the nations is his.” Christians acknowledge that this is a reference to Jesus Christ, whose kingdom will have no end. Jesus was born about 2000 years after Jacob died. Jesus’ ancestry is traced back to Jacob’s son, Judah, in Luke 3:23-34 and in Matthew 1:1-16. Today, there are some estimates that claim that there are as many as 2 billion Christians worldwide who follow the teachings of Jesus. – Copyright © George Konig, Ray Konig and 100Prophecies.org
Genesis 49:10:
The scepter will not depart from Judah, nor the ruler’s staff from between his feet, until he comes to whom it belongs and the obedience of the nations is his.
The Messiah would be a descendant of King David
Bible prophecy: Jeremiah 23:5
Prophecy written: Sometime between 626-586 BC
Prophecy fulfilled: By the birth of Jesus about 2000 years ago
In Jeremiah 23:5, as well as in other Bible prophecies, we are told that the Messiah would be a descendant of King David.
The New Testament books of Matthew and Luke trace back Jesus’ genealogy to King David. (Some scholars believe that the genealogy in Matthew is Jesus’ legal line, through his adoptive father, Joseph, and that the genealogy in Luke is Jesus’ bloodline through Mary). – Copyright © George Konig, Ray Konig and 100Prophecies.org
Jeremiah 23:5:
“The days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will raise up to David a righteous Branch, a King who will reign wisely and do what is just and right in the land.
My dear fellow indian christians!
if Veda predicted the birth and deeds of jesus christ,then u should return to hinduism;becoz by admiting the prediction of jesus in veda,u subconsciously admit that Veda is true;that means hinduism is also true and just….
if u were obsessed with caste system,why u didnt fight it?rather u got afraid and gave in,embraced christianity!remind that,only LOSERS change religion to justify their weakness and discontentness!
jesus born in israel,preached in middle east,crucified in israel;so by which hell,christianity is an indian religion?@@
christians have all rights to live respectfully and prosper in india,as ours is a seculer country,but christians were not immigrants,that means they were son of soil;and if they were son of soil,that means they were hindu by any definition;u live in secular india,deny ur ancestral religion,and advocate a such religion which becoming a foreign invader and assaulter,sucked our south asia for several centuries?Did jesus say that,”go to hindus and convert them” by enticing,forcing or misleading???
Did jesus order portuguese to capture goa and crucify the local gomantaki and chitpavan brahmans??@@
Sir/madam,with due respect,u have only ability to divide and confuse people either by force or by goeboles policy!
it is ur enough luck to propagate ur ideals in such a secular society;when indians wil be conscious about their root;then the burdens,who deny their ancestres,their heritage,and advocate any foreign concept are nothing,but merely loosers;and future self-conscious indian society will give no to these converting looser machines!@@
satyameva jayate
if you realy found your root then think about who is only One God in vedas and from where vedas orginated
Read David Frawley for answers(google him), clearly all Indian christians are suffering from identity crisis nowadays. Their masters, the Europeans, are abandoning that faith simply because the doctrins (Ref: Davod Frawley) are untenable to the wise men and women and hence they are drawn to hindu belief system. As a last resort, the pastors attack caste system and murthis and the like. The christians also worship idols like the apostles, angels, Mary, Christ etc etc. But they spare no effort to criticize the hindu deities. The anomalies of caste system have crept in much later and measures were put in place and thus those were rectified as soon as the outsiders were driven out. 800 yrs of nonstop invasions weakened the governance and things fell aprt in that disgraceful period, Ambedkar was made chairman of constitutional committee as a measure to compensate for the losses suffered by some communities, and by the way which community didnt suffer in the hands of mlechas?
Sorry to say this, but Europe is going down the drain because of getting out of the Christian faith. Just see the plight of Italy and Spain. At the same time India and China are prospering more due to increased faith in Christianity. There are 120 million Chinese Christians and soon that country will become a Christian nation. Moreover, if Europe is going out of Chritianity, it is you Hindus who should be worried because Europe is being Islamized and we know by history what happens to Hindus when countries where they live become Islamized. Pakistan is a good example. So please do not rejoice my Hindu brother. The problem is going to be yours too!!!
Yes and the Christians do so much better in Islamic countries don’t they?
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you said
A Christian tries to
convert me using
false Hindu
Scriptures
you need to know there is no religion called Hinduism it is just life style of every one who lives in India there is no special scripture for it.
My dear mishuk. Vedas don’t belong to Hindus too to come back to hinduism. First know about the origin of vedas and origin of Hinduism.
Please see “Pandit Dharm Prakash Sharma Testimony” on Google or Youtube….and then you will be 100% convinced that the Hindu Holy scriptures really genuinely prophesied about Jesus in Vedas and other holy scriptures for 100% genuine proof
Hello Everyone,
I have primarily 2 reasons to believe that Christ is not in the Vedas but before that let me give a small background of Christianity. The Adam and Eve story Christian interpretation is that original sin is due to Adam’s disobedience to God hence the whole of mankind is born sinners since mankind is the progeny of Adam. Now one must understand that there is no concept of soul within Christianity since Jews did not have it. So everyone is basically buried so that their bodies are resurrected during the Judgement day.
The below 2 points completely blows the hogwash thesis to pieces
1.Everyone is originally divine.
I will take 2 verses from the Vedas support this
“Deho devalayaha prokto jivo devah Sanatanaha tyajet ajnana nirmalyam soham bhavena pujayet”
Essential this verse means that the Jiva is divine we are divinities encased in the bodies.
“Ayam Atma Brahma”
This Atma is divine.
2.Reincarnation – This idea is present in the Vedas very clearly illustrated in the Briharanyaka Upanishad and the Katha Upanishad as well.
Now the concept of Saviour is not needed in Hinduism cause there is no original sin. Due to this there is no need of any Saviour therefore no blood sacrifice needed.
Also reincarnation is completely against the one life scenario of Christianity. It is also against the Judgement day concept. Cause people will pay for their karma in present or future births and hence no eternal hell or heaven concept. This is quite different.
Due to the above reasons I strongly oppose the thesis of Jesus in the Vedas. He is not there in the Vedas. Just because you have Brahma Putra it need not mean Jesus, it could even mean Narada or Daksha. It could also mean the Sanat Kumaras. Why should it mean Jesus ?
hi sri ram i had read you comment, its nice but i got a sloka from rig veda just once look at it
“SARVA PAPA PARIHARO RAKTHAPROKSHANAM AVASYAM. TAD RAKTAM PARAMATHMENA PUNYA DANA BALIYAGAM” this one is directly said about jesus, so what should i think, please……..
Where is it in rig veda?
posted again:
It is good that we discuss which is correct and incorrect. Jesus is gonna take his people and the whole world gonna realize that Jesus is god based on the people left in this world. Until this happen, people won’t believe the real god. After this happens, whomsoever left in this world would get 7 years to turn yourself to Christ.
hi brother, there are hindu, muslim, christian and many more other religions GOD’s are there but we have to think that by whom we can get MOKSHA,and ETERNAL LIFE, ex- if we go to a shop to buy a pen, there will be no. of companies pens, but we choose the better one to stand different from others, in the same way we have many gods but it is our choice to choose the best one.
hi brothers and sisters, i had read the comments, my humble request to all of us is that please don’t go on religion, caste or country, because we never know the origin of that things, because i strongly believe in GOD that he had made only human beings not religion, caste or country. so if any body is saying something, let us think about it, make a research and take a decision of ourselves. don’t blindly believe anyone. thank you all.
when a religion preaches it s followers to hate and convert people of other religions and the followers of other religion will end up in hell then it is not a religion it is a law forced by some greedy people …christians have no right to speak ill abt hinduism and ask people to convert …….taking notes from the vedas and spreading false news…….im sry to say dis but the people trying to spread their religion through ill treatment and stealing the verses from the holy books of other religions and brainwashing people and get the oppurtunities with the emotions of man then they r making their religion a false and shameful thing………..stop these type of cheap techniques and follow ur religion and don t try to show ur superior one……..ur not preaching the goshpel ur just marketing ur religion and ur god
Finally I got Answer you asked me .. here it is . .. These are canvaser’s edited manthrs to convert other religions people to christians..
just slap on his face or hang on public
. Mantra 1:
“ om shri Brahma putraya namaha:”
Definition given by them: “ Oh lord, son of god, we praise you” (they say it was referring to jesus)
My Explanation: Brahma Putraya = son of Brahma, It actually refers to Lord Shiva. Brahma born from a lotus, He created shiva.
“ one who is the son of Brahma,We bow to thee”
Mantra 2:
”om shri umathyaya namaha:”
Definition given by them: “oh lord who is born of the spirit, we praise you”
My explanation: it is not umathya, it is umadhya = Uma + Adhya;
Uma = luminous or light
Adhya = source
Umadhyaya = source of light.( see a small mistake , they wrote ‘t’ instead of ‘d’. it changed the entire meaning)
“one who is the source of light,We bow to thee”
Mantra 3:
“om shri kanni sudhaya namaha:”
Definition given by them: “oh lord who born of a virgin we praise you”
My explanation: kanni in Tamil /Malayalam means virgin. Sanskrit word for virgin is “Kanya”
There is no “Kanni” in Sanskrit . It is “kani”. Kani = Ever. Sudha = pure.
Kani sudha = Ever Pure.
“one who is Ever Pure,We bow to thee”
Mantra 4:
“om tharithra narayanaya namaha:”
Definition given by them: “ oh lord who become poor for our sake , we praise you”
My explanation:
It is not “tharithra” but it is “Dhrithri”, which means “ the Earth” in Sanskrit.
Sanskrit word for poor is Dhaaridrah.
Narayana = First Being.
“oh First Being of the earth,We bow to thee”
Mantra 5:
“om vidhiristaya namaha:”
Definition given by them: “oh lord who is circumcised, we praise you”
My Explanation: vidhir= worshipper or worship. Istaya= favourite or favour.
There is no word for circumcision in Sanskrit.
The word “kaat” means “ to cut”.. Private parts in Sanskrit is lingam or Yoni.
“one who favors his worshipper,We bow to thee”
Mantra 6:”ohm sri panchagayaya namaha:”
Definition given by them:”oh lord who bore five wounds on your body,we praise you”
My explanation: It is not “gaya” but “gavya”.
Pancha = Five ; gavya = blend of
Blend of five elements the air, the water, the earth, the space, and the fire.
“one who is blend of five(elements),We bow to thee”
Mantra 7 : “ohm shri vruksha shul aruthaya namaha:”
Definition given by them:” oh lord who sacrificed yourself on a trishool- like tree(wooden cross),we praise you”
My Explanation: not vruksha but virupaksha meanings “mis-formed eye”; shul = tri-spear, not arutha, it is arudha , which means ” to rise”
“one who rises the tri-spear with a mis-formed eye,Webow to thee”
Mantra 8: “ohm shri mruthyum jayaya namaha:”
Definition given by them: “oh Lord who won the death, we praise you”
My explanation: Yes, God do not have death. Here Mruthyum Jaya refers to shiva.
Mantra 9:”ohm shri sibilistaya namaha:”
Definition : oh lord who willingly offered your flesh to be eaten by your saints, we praise you”
My explanation: Sibhi chakravarthy is a famous king in mahabharatha, Ramayana also in jataka tales. He is considered as a member of vishnu’s lineage.
He sacrificed his flesh to save a pigeon from an eagle, pigeon and eagle were the Agni and Indra in disguise. (Note. H is story was written centuries before Christ. Recorded circa 400 B.C in jataka tales of buddists, don’t say it a copy.!)
Sibi = name of the king sibi. Istaya = favouite.
Mantra 10:” ohm shri thatchina moothyaya namaha:”
their definition “Oh lord seated by the side of your father, we praise you”
My explanation: It is not thatchina moorthy it is “Dhakshana moorthy”
Dhakshna = south ; Moorthy = deity.
The deity of the south.. it is often used to refer “Guru”, one of the Dikhpalaka or ruler of directions and also refers to lord shiva.
“oh god of the south,We bow to thee”
Mantra 11:”ohm shri maha devayaya namaha:”
Their definition: “ oh lord of the lords, I bow to you”
My explanation: Yes but it was actually referred Lord shiva, who is also called as Maha Deva. Budda also mentioned as Maha deva sometimes.
Maha deva = Greatest amonst the devas
“one who is greatest amongst the gods, We bow to thee”
CONCLUSION:
Though i have corrected the above definitions, some of the mantras stated above are not found in the actual SAHASRANAMAM of Hinduism. The above mantras may got mixed by the local priests in kerala from the Jesus Sahasranamam written by a christian sanskrit pundit.
Hi sarath,
Please you can go and research about purusha prajapathi in vedas and upanishads. Go and ask any poojaris why in bhagavath gita Lord krishna said in 9.16 that he(the supreme god) is the sacrifice. If so., who was sacrificed historically.
I think you have corrupted your interpretation since you have changed the wording sometimes. And you have overlooked the texts entirely. I suggest instead of just speculating and say “my explanation” better see what the Vedas say. Surely you know these texts are from the Vedas.