I received some comments from someone claiming to be an Indian Christian1. I first thought that it was not worthy of a proper response, but after more thought I decided that unless the points are rebutted there is some chance of people might actually believe some of them to have merit. So here is what the poster had to say.
Writing this response seems somewhat surreal. I know so little about Hinduism compared to the many Indians that John must have met who could have pointed out his errors. I know that many extremist Christian groups tell their children not to talk to people outside their group, but I still find it surprising that he has not been informed more about Hinduism.
My name may sound confusing to many but the fact of the matter is that i am a INDIAN CHRISTIAN who has been in the u.k. for the past 5 years.I read your article saying that why don’t christian missionaries target the u.k.? and you said that in INDIA many people have a moral life. MY FRIEND, I would like to clarify certain things –
1. CHRISTANITY IS BY FAR THE BEST RELIGION ON EARTH AND INFINITELY SUPERIOR THAN HINDUISIM. When you accuse the whites of living a immoral life then i would say that it is because most of them are rich and it is only human that once a man/woman get rich that they forget about GOD(JESUS CHRIST).
Actually I did not mention race at all. If you go down to city centres you will see people of many races engaging in such behaviour. I don’t think it is necessarily true that when people are rich they leave religion behind. There are many rich religious people in the world, and many poor non-religious.
2. TALKING ABOUT MORALS OF HINDUS- CAN U EXPLAIN TO ME WHY IS INDIA’S POPULATION INCREASING BY A WHOPPING 20 MILLION EVERY YEAR WHEN IT IS SUCH A MORAL COUNTRY (AS HINDUS ARE 80%)OF THE POPULATION.
I am not sure why you equate population growth with morality, but OK for the sake of argument I will accept it as a measure. The country with the highest population growth is Libera ( Growth rate 4.836 %, religions traditional 40%, Christian 40%, Islam 20%). The list continues2:
- Libera ( Growth rate 4.836 %; religions: traditional 40%, Christian 40%, Islam 20%)
- United Arab Emirates (Growth rate 3.997 %; religions: Islam 96% (Sunni 80%, Shiite 16%), Christian, Hindu, and other 4%)
- Gaza Strip (Growth rate 3.66 %; religions: Islam 98.7% (predominantly Sunni), Christian 0.7%, Jewish 0.6%)
- Mayotte (Growth rate 3.617 %; religions: Islam 97%)
- Burundi (Growth rate 3.593 ; religions: Roman Catholic 62%, indigenous 23%, Islam 10%, Protestant 5%)
- Uganda (Growth rate: 3.572 %; religions: Roman Catholic 33%, Protestant 33%, Islam 16%, indigenous beliefs 18%)
So the top entries are four Islamic and two Christian countries. India comes 86th in the list with a population growth rate of 1.606 %.
THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT YOUR STUPID CONCEPT OF SALVATION IS THAT YOU DO ANY SIN AND GO AND TAKE A DIP IN THE GANGES AND YOU WILL BE SAVED. HOW IGNORANT AND STUPID THAT CAN BE?
OK, It is true that many Hindus believe that the Ganges can wash away sins. Lets compare that with the Christian belief that Jesus will forgive all sins (in some sects involving confession to a priest). At this point you have salvation. No further need to develop spiritual awareness. Whatever you do you are forgiven.
Though a Hindu may have sins washed away from the Ganges they still have to become spiritually aware, and to establish a relationship with God. There is still the duty of correct Dharma.
3. AND SHUT YOUR MOUTH UP WHEN U ACCUSE CHRISTIAN MISSIONARIES OF FORCED CONVERSIONS.MY GRANDFATHER WAS A HINDU PRIEST AND HE CONVERTED VOLUNTARY TO CHRISTANITY[sic] ALONG WITH HIS BROTHERS BECAUSE HE REALISED THE TRUTH.
I am not saying that all Hindus who converted to Christianity been force. There are, however, many cases of bribery and coercion3. Presumably they believe that God wants them to behave this way.
4. HINDUISIM SHOULD NOT BE CALLED A RELIGION IN THE FIRST PLACE BECAUSE IT IS JUST A GROUPING OF LOCAL TEACHINGS MY SOME MEN.
If you are saying that it is not inspired by God then you are wrong. If you are saying that there are a variety of beliefs, then you are correct; there are Shaivites, Smarta, Vaishnavas, Shaktas and more. It is generally accepted that Hindus are everyone who accepts the Vedas. Some also see Jains, Sikhs and Buddhists as non-orthodox branches of Hinduism.
UNFORTUNATELY PEOPLE IN THE WEST AND EUROPE CONSIDER IT TO BE A RELIGION. WHAT THEY DON’T KNOW THAT IT IS INSPIRED BY SATAN HIMSELF ,THAT’S WHY YOU PEOPLE WORSHIP THE SNAKE.
Surprisingly you know a lot less about Hinduism than many Westerners. Satan, is of course a construct of the Abrahamic religions. It was chiefly invented to denigrate and defame the the Yazidi religion4, but you and others tend to use it to denigrate anyone who’se belief differs from your own. Christians even use it to describe other Christian denominations5.
5. WHAT PEOPLE IN THE WEST DON’T KNOW IS THE REAL FACE OF HINDUISM . IT IS FULL OF BLACK MAGIC,WITCHCRAFT,SORCERY,IDOL WORSHIP( U IDIOTS SAY THAT THERE ARE 360 MILLION GODS AND GODDESSES) HOW STUPID THAT CAN BE!
Well, firstly I think the number you are looking for is 330 million. Often quoted as the number of Gods in Hinduism this is a mistranslation of “33 types of God”6. Also Hinduism sees the multiple Gods as aspects of the one true God. This is not dissimilar to the Christian Trinity or the Jewish Kabbalha, as I described in another article.
6. AND U HINDUS ARE THE MOST SUPERSTITIOUS AND ORTHODOX PEOPLE IN THE WORLD. EVEN THOUGH YOU HAVE PH.D’S BUT DEEP DOWN INSIDE YOU STILL ARE BACKWARD MINDED. CAN U EXPLAIN TO ME WHY U STILL TREAT WOMEN AS SECOND CLASS CITIZENS IN THE MAJORITY OF INDIA?
Reasons of society, the same as in many African and South American Christian countries and many middle eastern Islamic states. It is not enshrined in the religion as in Islam.
OR YOU STILL FOLLOW A 1000 SUPERSTITIONS EVERY SINGLE DAY OF YOUR LIFE.
Hinduism has many ceremonies around daily activities designed to keep you in touch with the spiritual nature of things. To help you think of God in all you do. It is true that some people forget this purpose and see them as mere superstitions, but this is no fault of Hinduism.
OR WHY STILL CASTEISM IS WIDELY PRACTISED IN INDIA , IN WHICH BRAHMAN(THE HINDU PRIEST) IS CONSIDERED TO BE SUPERIOR THAN OTHERS.
Many Hindu groups now reject caste. The Mahabharata supports this
When a pious nature and pious deeds are noticeable in even a Sudra, he should, according to my opinion, be held superior to a person of the three regenerate classes. Neither birth, nor the purificatory rites, nor learning, nor offspring, can be regarded as grounds for conferring upon one the regenerate status. Verily, conduct is the only ground. All Brahmanas in this world are Brahmanas in consequence of conduct. A Sudra, if he is established on good conduct, is regarded as possessed of the status of a Brahmana. The status of Brahma, O auspicious lady, is equal wherever it exists. Even this is my opinion. He, indeed, is a Brahmana in whom the status of Brahma exists,–that condition which is bereft of attributes and which has no stain attached to it. (Mahabharata CXLIII).
Now many schools allow Dalits as priests, again affirming it is nature and not birth that determine position7.
7. THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS THAT U HINDUS HATE THE TRUE ABRAHAMIC RELIGIONS(CHRISTANITY,ISLAM AND JUDAISIM) INSPIRED BY THE ONE TRUE GOD FROM THE CORE OF YOUR HEART.THAT IS EVIDENT OF THE VOILENT KILLINGS OF 6,000 MUSLIMS IN GUJRAT IN 2002 AND THE CONTINOUS ATTACKS AND KILLING OF CHRISTIAN MISSIONARIES IN INDIA.
Of course killing is wrong, but look at all the massacres carried out by Christians. See my “Cathars from a Hindu Perspective” for details of one of the many masacres. Some Christians still practice terrorism today8.
ALSO U DISCRIMINATE SO MUCH AGAINST THE CHRISTIANS IN INDIA ,BY DESTROYING THE LIVES OF MANY THOUSANDS OF CHRISTIAN STUDENTS THROUGH YOUR BLACK MAGIC WHICH IS INTEGRAL IN HINDUISIM.
8. IT REALLY SADDENS ME TO SEE THAT IN THE WEST AND EUROPE CHRISTIANS ARE GOING AGAINST THE MUSLIMS -WHO HAPPEN TO BE THEIR OWN YOUNGER BROTHERS .IF U SEE AT THE RICH ABRAHAMIC HERITAGE MUSLIMS AND CHRISTIANS SHARE.
I think you will find that whereas Inclusivist religions such as Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism get on, and can respect tolerant members of other religions, the basic exclusivity of Abrahamic religions breeds hatred and disagreement. Different Islamic sects fight each other, as do different Christian denominations. It is strange that you readily accept groups that call for eachother’s death, but reject those who accept difference.
9. IN REALITY IT IS U HINDUS WHO ARE THE BIGGEST PROBLEM ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH WHO HATE CHRISTIANS AND MUSLIMS FROM THE CORE OF THEIR HEART. I JUST WISH THAT PEOPLE IN THE WEST AND EUROPE AND IN THE ARAB COUNTRIES REALISE THIS AND ATLEAST FOR THE TIME BEING FORGET THEIR DIFFERENCES
I have never seen a Hindu express the hatred for a Buddhist, or a Buddhist for a Hindu that you express. Note the “at least for the time being”… in other words you will want to convert or kill them once they have helped you.
AND JOIN HANDS TO STOP YOU HINDUS FROM COMING TO THE WEST AND ARAB COUNTRIES.BY PUTTING A COMPLETE BAN ON HINDU IMMIGRATION TO U.S.A,CANADA,EUROPE AND ALL ARAB COUNTRIES SO THAT THE RELIGION OF BLACK MAGIC,WITCHCRAFT,SORCERY i.e. HINDUISIM DOES NOT SPREAD ITS EVIL POISON IN THESE LANDS OF ABRAHAMIC RELIGIONS.
What a world you want. Perhaps you should go and live in Iran or Saudi Arabia. Oh wait, they don’t tolerate Christians… and the USA and Europe are pretty fearful of Muslims at the moment.
10. IF SOMEONE IS READING THIS THEN THIS MIGHT SOUND TO YOU A LITTLE HARSH ON HINDUISIM BUT TRUST ME THIS IS THE REAL TRUTH AND FACE OF HINDUISIM WHICH UNFORTUNATELY A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THE WEST ,EUROPE AND ARAB COUNTRIES DO NOT REALISE. FOR CHRISTIANS , GO AND READ THE BOOK OF ROMANS IN THE NEW TESTAMENT CHAPTER ONE AND U WILL REALISE WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT. AND BEING AN INDIAN CHRISTIAN I KNOW HOW BLOOD THIRSTY HINDUS ARE WHENEVER THEY SEE A INDIAN CHRISTIAN DOING WELL IN LIFE.THIS IS NOT A PERSONAL VENDETTA AGAINST HINDUS BUT THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH WHICH I HAVE REALISED IN THE WORLD. IF ANY OF YOU ARE INTERESTED THEN U CAN ALWAYS CONTACT ME ON MY E-MAIL WHICH IS firstname.lastname@example.org
Maybe people should see how Hindus go out of their way to show respect to people of other religions. Even the orkut “Ban Christian Missionaries” group says
WE LOVE CHRISTIANS,JESUS IS LOVE AND HE WILL BE WITH US LIKE A GURU. BUT HATE THE ACTIVITIES OF CHRISTIAN MISSIONARIES.
They hate the use of bribery and threats, and the encouraging of divisions and hatred, but show the religion itself great respect. How would God like you to act? Like the “Indian Christian” or like the many Indian Hindus?
This article may be updated as I receive advice and information from the many helpful people in the orkut “Converts to Hinduism” group. I will probably respond to the poster’s second message later.
(24-11-2007 – I have decided not to answer this second post at the moment. The reasons are given in the post “Why I will not respond to the second ‘Christian’ post soon“.
I have tried a slightly different layout for this post, with most references at the bottom rather than having so many inline links. Is this better or worse (it takes a lot longer!)
1 These comments were made to my post “Why don’t Christian missionaries target Britain rather than India?”. I put a brief reply to the first comment, and later received a second comment in reply.
2 Source of population statistics: nationmaster.com. Religion statistics sourced from infoplease.com and nationmaster.com.
3 There are many cases of forced conversion. Many Christians see bribery, threats, etc. as valid means of conversion and oppose laws that seek to ban these practices.
4 See Yazidi on Wikipedia.
5 For example www.jesus-is-savior.com says: “Pope John Paul II was a minister of Satan, a false prophet”.
6 See wikipedia entry for Deva.
7 “Lately, the Vishva Hindu Parishad has managed to get even the most traditionalist religious leaders on the anti-untouchability platform, so that they invite harijans to Vedic schools and train them as priests” from Hinduism today.
8 See Wikipedia Christian Terrorism article.