We Christians are so fortunate to have been born as untouchables who are not allowed entry into temples of profound philosophy. Thus we were denied satisfaction of spiritual needs.

I think it is a terrible wrong that this happened, and a mistaken belief of those who did it. All the scriptures are clear that God is in everyone, so everyone is worthwhile. Fortunately this is changing, with untouchables trained as priests, and general moves to alleviate the problem. Of course I know that this is not much comfort to someone who has had to live through it.

white man’s racism cannot be compared to casteism though both are barbaric. Casteism is the discriminatory treatment by small minority socalled high caste hindus of majority of the people of their own race and country. in short racism is race against another race and casteism is race against their own race!

British society also has problems of discrimination against people of the same race, the Irish in particular feel discrimination, less so in England than in Scotland but it’s still present. In my view all discrimination is wrong, we are all human and all have a divine soul. Discrimination between races or within a race is never justified.

As the last comment from my side. conscience is the best judge of what is wrong and what is right. But it is beyond the grasp of even the conscience to conceive forgiveness to persecutor. This amply demonstrates that there is a perfect Being( apart from self – advaita) whose blemishless love and sanctity alone can be a perfect yagna for our sins.

There are a few that can forgive persecution, Gandhi for one. Martin Luther King Jr. In America also forgave persecutors, begging his supporters not to harm a racist who had attacked him. I agree it is a rare thing, and I don’t know if I would be capable of it, but I hope that in time I would.

Further no amount of goodness we are capable of can qualify us for eternal bliss. It has to be only God’s unmatched love and fogiveness that gifts us the bliss. For even the most blemishless humanbeing is worse than the worst in the heaven.

In general I think in this lifetime few of us can attain liberation. I totally agree that “even the most blemishless humanbeing is worse than the worst in the heaven”, and this is one of the reasons I believe in the Hindu philosophy of development in many worlds over many lives. If Christians go straight to heaven as they are, heaven cannot be perfect. Even if it were filled with good Christians like yourself there would still be imperfection. Since Christianity says the worst Christians are admitted, those who ask for forgiveness knowing that they will sin again and those filled with hate (see some of the other comments here!) it cannot possibly be so. You may say that God will magically make you all perfect, but if change does not come from within yourselves how much is it really “you” that goes to heaven?

Lastly whether it is heaven or hell you have the same situation. There are untouchables there that you HAVE to serve. The sinner does it against his wishes and so he is in hell and the compassionate does it most willingly and so he is in heaven!

If I understand this then again I agree. Part of spiritual development is to see God in all, and to be able to treat all as holy and as the same.

I am very sorry if I hurt your feelings. I feel Christ is simple and obvious where as Profound philosophy is misleading and covers something undesirable.

Somebody misled you. You are the missing lamb. Let the Shepherd feel the joy of finding you. I am a complete stranger to u. But something has compelled me to write to you again and again.

Well, Christianity also has a profound philosophy, though most don’t know of it. I find it odd that even the Creed is not explained to many Christians, for example many don’t know that the “Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father” is to imply that God is the cause but did not come before the spirit. Hinduism can be seen at many levels, just stories with morals, allegories of spiritual philosophy, or an underlying reality below Maya. In any religion there are those who interpret it in an undesirable way, but the heart of the religion is pure. Love God with all your heart (bhakti), and all your being. Truly you and your neighbour are the same, so Hinduism teaches us to love our neihbours as ourselves. In truth there is much in common at the heart of true belief in all religions.

Somebody misled you. You are the missing lamb. Let the Shepherd feel the joy of finding you. I am a complete stranger to u. But something has compelled me to write to you again and again.

I have not been mislead, neither am I a missing lamb, at least no more than anyone is when on this physical plain. I have found a path, a true path that teaches how to find God and our own true nature. I am sorry that people who should have held this path open to you did not do so.

I will not disturb u again.

I find your comments sincere and I am not in the least bit upset by them. When I wrote that I thought that it was a futile argument I just mean that if you think your posts will somehow convert me then it is a waste of time. I can see why you have the view of Hinduism that you do, and I think it is a shame. You have taken on board some of the exclusivity that plagues Christianity, but you have avoided some of the worst beliefs, so I think it can be a good path for you in this life.

Thank you for your comments, I do not want you to think you have hurt my feelings in any way.
Namaste
Chris

P.S. I will get round to a post on the caste system, I have just been rather busy!

We Christians are so fortunate to have been born as untouchables who are not allowed entry into temples of profound philosophy. Thus we were denied satisfaction of spiritual needs. But this very discrimination is what gave us entry into simple and plain love of Christ.

white man’s racism cannot be compared to casteism though both are barbaric. Casteism is the discriminatory treatment by small minority socalled high caste hindus of majority of the people of their own race and country. in short racism is race against another race and casteism is race against their own race! If people argue that high caste hindus are a superior race to the untouchables than obviously they admit that aryans are foreign invaders! But, in order to claim that the high castes are also original inhabitants,if they are ready to concede, that the aryans are the same race as the untoucables how much more criminal is it than the whiteman’s racism!

As the last comment from my side. conscience is the best judge of what is wrong and what is right. But it is beyond the grasp of even the conscience to conceive forgiveness to persecutor. This amply demonstrates that there is a perfect Being( apart from self – advaita) whose blemishless love and sanctity alone can be a perfect yagna for our sins.

Any loving friend willingly takes the punishment that is meant for his friend just for the satisfaction of knowledge that his friend is safe. So what is wrong if Christ offers to sacrifice for His friend-you?

Further no amount of goodness we are capable of can qualify us for eternal bliss. It has to be only God’s unmatched love and fogiveness that gifts us the bliss. For even the most blemishless humanbeing is worse than the worst in the heaven.

Lastly whether it is heaven or hell you have the same situation. There are untouchables there that you HAVE to serve. The sinner does it against his wishes and so he is in hell and the compassionate does it most willingly and so he is in heaven!

Signing up with Christ to have the privilege of sinning again and again knowingly and being forgiven again and again is an interpretation of criminals. It is human to err and stumble sometimes. But there has to be a blessed assurance that such human shortcomings will not condemn you for ever but lovingly lends a pierced hand to make you stand on your feet again! Even if somebody wants to cheat or not he is entitled only to the above situation where it is hell or heaven for him.

I am very sorry if I hurt your feelings. I feel Christ is simple and obvious where as Profound philosophy is misleading and covers something undesirable.

Somebody misled you. You are the missing lamb. Let the Shepherd feel the joy of finding you. I am a complete stranger to u. But something has compelled me to write to you again and again.

I will not disturb u again.

Good bye

What really makes this different from the Aryan invasion, is that almost every Hindu would condemn such an action, if it ever happened. In contrast, because of the dictate of Papal Infallibility Catholics have to believe that this was the correct course of action, that the instruction to kill the Cathars was a divine revelation to the Pope. To say that they acted wrongly would be heresy.

Even u cannot gain an entry into an orthodox hindu house as a rent paying tenant in India. They won’t welcome u with open arms like u embraced their pagan religion. I lovingly suggest u get back to Christ’s embrace rather than into the religion of the people who do not let u step into their house.

I don’t doubt that there are some Hindus who would not be welcoming. I have never met any though. I think you will find that there are plenty of Christians who won’t accept you, from the racists within mainstream churches to explicitly racist Christian groups, including the Ku Klux klan, which says

THIS IS A WHITE CHRISTIAN ORGANIZATION, exalting the Caucasian Race and teaching the doctrine of
white pride.

You also say “If they also share ur above belief they will realise that allegorical stories cannot have physical and real world implications.” Does this mean you skip the parables in the Bible.

Finally, when it comes to people misusing the religion to justify their actions, remember that Christianity was used to justify slavery. Also Gandhi wrote of a Christian who said that “the advantage of being a Christian is you don’t have to feel the guilt for your actions”, and matched it with his deeds, regularly committing immoral acts in the knowledge that he was forgiven. Personally I believe that the Christian creed is more likely to lead to this type of behaviour than Hinduism, but the truth is that there are people who will misinterpret any religion.

I think I have grasped your comments, but like I said I think this is a futile argument. As I have said before I think that your interpretation of Christianity is admirable. However, to many it would be heresy. I think it is a shame that you cannot see the good in other religions, but I realize that your beliefs will not let you see that.

Hari Om
Chris

As I am sure you are aware that it is also possible to view Jesus as a misunderstood Hindu, for example The Sermon on the Mount According to Vedanta. From what you say your unorthodox version of Christianity does not include the hatred for other religions, and belief in an evil God who will punish those of the wrong faith. It seems to me that though we are of different faiths our core beliefs are similar. We believe in a good and merciful God who will redeem all, and the need for spiritual purity and sacrifice.

From what I have heard there are Greek Orthodox Christians who have lived in India for centuries, without trying to denigrate other faiths and instill hatred as the modern missionaries have. If all Christians were like them or like you, there would not be a problem.

Vedas Foretell About the Sacrifice of Christ

By Taken from Balidan tract
Author -Anubhavanand Keshav Ray Sharma Mandapaka

All have sinned disobeying the law of God. So they try to find different ways in order to escape from the wrath of God. In our country (India) some make offerings to Brahmins, and others sacrifice animals.

Vedas declare sacrifice as the only way for salvation. “Dharmani prathamani” it means that sacrifice is most important of all our duties.

“Yagyo vay bhuvanasya nabhih” – Sacrifice is the base of the world.
“Yagye sarvam pratishtitham” – Through sacrifice all things can be obtained.
“Yagyo vay sutram nouh” – Sacrifice is a boat by which life can be driven smoothly.
“Yagyem va deva divangatah” – gods got to heaven only through sacrifice.
“Ritasya nah pathinay ati vishvani durita” – get saved through sacrifice.

“These theories which are declared in Vedas show that sacrifice should get the highest place in all the penance and it should be done for the remission of sins.

Come let us see what the message of BhagvatGeeta’s is:

“Sah-yagyah prajah srushtva purovach prajapathih Annen pravishyadhvamesh vo s sitvasht kamdhuk”
It means:

When God made man in the beginning, He did sacrifice and He said, “by this your heart’s desire may be full.”
“Yagya shapith kalmashah” – Those whose sins are washed by sacrifice.
“Nayam loko-sthya yagyasyakutho-nyah kurusatham” – O, holy guru when those who did not sacrifice a single time has no place in this world, then how can he get to heaven?

The importance of sacrifice has been shown in this way. We see in Madakopnishad, “Plava hyeth adhrada yagya rupah” – The timber of sacrifice-boat would be silent.

In the 7th chapter of yagya vaibhav khand in Skandha Puran we can read like this:-
“Plava hyete sura yagya adrudashch na shamsayah” -O gods, The timber of sacrifice – boat is undoubtedly silent.

Tandya mahabrahmin says, “Yagyo va avati tasya chaya criyate”- Only sacrifice can give deliverance, whatever is done is only a shadow of sacrifice.

In Rig -Veda we read, “Atmada balda yasyachaya-mrutam… yasya mrityuh” – whose shadow and death became life (Amrit – or immortality), by his shadow and death He will give soul and strength.

All these above writings clearly states that sacrifice itself never brings deliverance but they are only the shadow of sacrifice which brings great deliverance. Ethray brahmin says, “Yagyamanah pashu yagyamanmev swarga lokam gaymati” – “He Who donates animal for sacrifice, does the sacrifice and goes to heaven.”

Shathpath brahmin says, “Prajapathi yagyah” – God Himself is sacrifice.

In tandya mahabrahmin of Sam-Veda, it says, “Prajapathi devemya atmanam yagyam drutva praikshat” – God will offer give Himself as sacrifice and receive the repentance of sins.

Shathpath brahmin says, “Tasya prajapathirdharmev martyamasidharth marutham” -God became half mortal and half immortal. It means He became man and heavenly the mixture of both.

Purushsukta says, “sacrifice of Brahmadev is done.

All these teachings clearly indicates that the master of this creation himself will perform a true and great saving sacrifice. He would become both mortal and immortal and anointed God – man and by becoming the sacrificial animal, He would give Himself for the deliverance of the sins of mankind.

Rig-Veda gives the following facts regarding the sacrificial animal:

1. It should be a lamb without blemish.
2. Around his head ‘Bulusu’ bush should be placed.
3. It should be on the altar of sacrifice.
4. Its four legs should be nailed in such a way that until they bleed.
5. The cloth which covers the lamb should be distributed in four parts.
6. No bones should be broken
7. Gal should be given for the drink of the lamb.
8. After it is sacrificed, it should come back to life again.
9. Its flesh should be eaten.

From this we can come to the conclusion that the anointed Lamb of God who gave Himself for sacrifice and died for us, complied with all these descriptions.

It can be said that God took the form of a man first and then to save the sinners He gave Himself to be sacrificed. In our country we never read about this type of anointed one in our scriptures. No one who is God’s anointed ever had this type of sacrificial death for the redemption of sinners. But in the meditarian seashore of western Asia there is a country called Palestine that is situated in the midst of dense population of the world. In this country an anointed son was born to a holy virgin in whom all these above written qualities were complete. He was completely innocent and blameless. He lived a holy and pure life. He was both mortal and immortal means both man and God. From the beginning itself He prophesied about His sacrificial death for the deliverance of mankind and victorious resurrection from the death. He delivered Himself to those evil people who not only loved sin and sinful ways of this world but also wanted to kill Him.

If we see about His death, we can see that as the Rig-Veda describes the qualities of the sacrificial lamb they are exactly fulfilled in this anointed person as explained below:

1. It should be a blameless lamb – He was a blameless (or without sin) God – man.
2. Around his head ‘Bulusu’ bush should be placed – A crown of thorn was put on His head.
3. It should be on the altar of sacrifice – He was laid on the Cross.
4. Its four legs should be nailed in such a way that until they bleed – His hands and legs were nailed.
5. The cloth which covers the lamb should be distributed in four parts – Those who crucified Him distributed His cloths by themselves.
6. No bones should be broken – None of His bones were broken.
7. Gal-juice should be given for the drink of the lamb – He was given vinegar for drink.
8. After it is sacrificed, it should come back to life again- He rose up from the dead on the third day.
9. flesh of it must be eaten- Before His death, He said to his disciples that they should eat His flesh and drink His blood, which was sacrificed for the salvation of the world; and for the remembrance of His death take bread and grape juice and for this He started a holy ritual which is still being performed.

In this anointed person, the sacrifice of repentance which can save sinners, is completed. All these things clearly states that this is the anointed one of God through whom sinners can get salvation of their souls. This anointed one is none other than JESUS.

Purushsukt says, “Nanya panthah vidhyatey nyayah” – Even by the thousands of good works you can not get to heaven, except through Brahmdev who gave Himself as sacrifice,.”

So there is none other than “JESUS” who can save you from your sins.

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I strongly recommend this book to u as it gives native details, historical perspective, the untouchable’s plight, brahminical religion’s invasion etc.,
I think it will help u to get some essential understanding in depth in the subject of ur interest and in ur promised comments on caste system. Please do read the book at the earliest.
Best wishes